Difference between revisions of "Talk:CIA"

Latest revision as of 17:19, 22 July 2016

Old CIA Formats[edit]

24/06/2010 - CTR_SDK: 0_10[edit]

CIA Header

START	SIZE	DESCRIPTION
0x00	0x04	Archive Header Size (Usually = 0x2020 bytes)
0x04	0x02	Type
0x06	0x02	Version
0x08	0x04	Unused
0x0C	0x04	Unused
0x10	0x04	Zero Filled Data (usually 0x200 bytes in length)
0x14	0x04	Zero Filled Data (usually 0x200 bytes in length)
0x18	0x08	APP file size
0x20	0x2000	Content Index

The order of the sections in the CIA file:

Header
Zero Data*2
APP file data

The APP data is cleartext. Only one executable supported.

06/07/2010 - CTR_SDK: 0_10_2[edit]

CIA Header

START	SIZE	DESCRIPTION
0x00	0x04	Archive Header Size (Usually = 0x2020 bytes)
0x04	0x02	Type
0x06	0x02	Version
0x08	0x04	Unused
0x0C	0x04	Ticket size
0x10	0x04	TMD file size
0x14	0x04	Unused
0x18	0x08	APP file size
0x20	0x2000	Content Index

The order of the sections in the CIA file:

Header
Ticket
TMD
APP file data

Very similar to the final CIA version(encryption, TMD, etc), except there is no embedded Certificate Chain.

Discussion[edit]

Good work Lazymarek9614, Now 3dsexplorer on the svn is 0.73 (you can download it from the beta link) supports cia. --Elisherer 21:34, 10 November 2011 (CET)

@Elisherer where is that beta link?--3dsguy 02:39, 11 November 2011 (CET)

3DSExplorer, bottom of the bage. --Elisherer 08:09, 11 November 2011 (CET)

"Each section is cleartext for dev CIAs, for retail CIAs the APP data is encrypted."

Dev/Production CIA use the same specification. So I'm not sure what you mean by this.

The "ctrtool" on the CXI page already parses the CIA format, why re-invent the wheel?

"CIA files can be created with the Nintendo 3DS SDK and installed on the 3DS test units by the Dev Menu."

Please keep the focus on documentation of the spec., we don't want to explain things from the perspective of SDK users- but for someone that knows (potentially) nothing about the 3DS. The SDK does not tell the whole story of most file formats, and most people don't need to know what the SDK can do for them but what they can do without the SDK. - Jl12

"Dev/Production CIA use the same specification. So I'm not sure what you mean by this. " I originally worded it that way on the page because both CIAs 3dsguy uploaded had cleartext APP data, thus I wasn't sure if CTR-SDK had an option for encrypting the dev CIAs. I don't get why Elisherer re-implements about everything ctrtool already does either... --Yellows8 05:26, 12 November 2011 (CET)

- Depending on which one it was, the link that was removed initially was a old presentation from e3. It's just out dated enough that the cia format probably hadn't been finalized. Anything before firmwares 0.10.0 - 0.11.0 neither use LZ compression nor encrypt (!) but - except the use of keys, the SDK now produces .cia with close to retail specs. Jl12

If you like working with the windows command line be my guest. I got more progress looking at the files with 3dsexplorer... (And i'm not re-inventing 3dsexplorer didn't support cia so I added it, I will continue fixing the structure to be as accurate it can be) --Elisherer 09:48, 12 November 2011 (CET)

- I was thinking more the wiki and the "documentation" of the structures then 3dsexplorer tool. (I thought this was based on binaries, though) Jl12

I personaly like a command line tool more, but it's really annoying to have for each format another tool. Shall I create a new page for the certs and tickets?--Lazymarek9614 15:06, 13 November 2011 (CET)

The format of the certs/tickets seem to be the same as before,(besides the new signature types already described on the TMD page) not really necessary to create pages for those.(Any info on what cert is used to sign what should be on a /sys/cert.sys page or so later IMO) Elisherer, you're re-inventing the wheel aka re-implementing CXI/CIA code which ctrtool had for months, which is a waste of time IMO. --Yellows8 19:24, 13 November 2011 (CET)

Yellows8, I didn't write any new code for the CXI/CCI/TMD/CIA opening, I just copied it from the ctrtool (as I mentioned when I just written the app). The rest (which is the SAVE flash) became the prime goal of the app and with it I discovered a lot of new information. I try implementing most of the file structures we know so it would be more accessible to everyone (Hoping it would help solving more mysteries). I know that now it's not clear why 3dsexplorer opens these sort of file--Elisherer 00:11, 3 February 2012 (CET)s but with time more information will come and it will grow to extract more important information. I hope you understand. --Elisherer 20:27, 13 November 2011 (CET)

Sorry guys, this discussion doesn't really has anything to do with the CIA format. Please choose another page for this or stop it now. @ Yellows8: I think it's not important to create a new page for it too, only some links to the TMD format and wiibrew wiki are necessary.--Lazymarek9614 20:44, 13 November 2011 (CET)

Other than that TMD code, that CXI/CIA code looks nothing like the ctrtool code to me - but whatever. --Yellows8 22:07, 13 November 2011 (CET)

Maybe you guys would like a forum... it would be less clumsy or interefering to the wiki then plastering talk page with comments. Not to mention we could use pictures and attach files directly. I don't mind setting up something like that if it's actually going to be used. Jl12

I think a forum is not a bad idea, but I also don't mind using the Talk page on the wiki aslong as it is relevant. Maybe Mha can take a look into setting up a forum on the 3dbrew host? --Neimod 21:51, 18 November 2011 (CET)

http://n-dev.net

Jl12

I prefer having a forum running on the 3dbrew host and managed by the 3dbrew administrators. The forum link above is fine for now as a temporary measure. --Neimod 04:48, 20 November 2011 (CET)

Is there any reason it has to be on the 3dbrew host? If it's an issue of forum management I can just move your account(s) to the administrator group. Nobody's forced to use it, of course. Jl12

I agree with Neimod.--Matyapiro31 11:56, 20 November 2011 (CET)

The link to Jl12's CIA example is broken (probably since the FBI took down MegaUpload). Could someone re-upload it somewhere else? Thanks! CHR15x94 23:41, 2 February 2012 (CET)

Download it contents here--Elisherer 00:11, 3 February 2012 (CET)

Content Index?[edit]

What on earth is the "Content Index"? To me it sounds critical to understanding the contents chunk.--Henke37 (talk) 17:39, 22 July 2016 (CEST)

It's a number that identifies an NCCH to be installed by that CIA, equivalent to the partition number of a CCI: indeed, 0=main, 1=manual, 2=remote app are used in exactly the same way. The number of mazimum possible partitions is however much higher in CIAs! --Ryccardo (talk) 18:19, 22 July 2016 (CEST)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+== Old CIA Formats ==
+=== 24/06/2010 - CTR_SDK: 0_10 ===
+'''CIA Header'''
+{| class="wikitable" border="1"
+|-
+!  START
+!  SIZE
+!  DESCRIPTION
+|-
+|  0x00
+|  0x04
+|  Archive Header Size (Usually = 0x2020 bytes)
+|-
+|  0x04
+|  0x02
+|  Type
+|-
+|  0x06
+|  0x02
+|  Version
+|-
+|  0x08
+|  0x04
+|  Unused
+|-
+|  0x0C
+|  0x04
+|  Unused
+|-
+|  0x10
+|  0x04
+|  Zero Filled Data (usually 0x200 bytes in length)
+|-
+|  0x14
+|  0x04
+|  Zero Filled Data (usually 0x200 bytes in length)
+|-
+|  0x18
+|  0x08
+|  APP file size
+|-
+|  0x20
+|  0x2000
+|  Content Index
+|}
+The order of the sections in the CIA file:
+* Header
+* Zero Data*2
+* APP file data
+The APP data is cleartext. Only one executable supported.
+=== 06/07/2010 - CTR_SDK: 0_10_2 ===
+'''CIA Header'''
+{| class="wikitable" border="1"
+|-
+!  START
+!  SIZE
+!  DESCRIPTION
+|-
+|  0x00
+|  0x04
+|  Archive Header Size (Usually = 0x2020 bytes)
+|-
+|  0x04
+|  0x02
+|  Type
+|-
+|  0x06
+|  0x02
+|  Version
+|-
+|  0x08
+|  0x04
+|  Unused
+|-
+|  0x0C
+|  0x04
+|   [[CommonETicket|Ticket]] size
+|-
+|  0x10
+|  0x04
+|  [[TMD]] file size
+|-
+|  0x14
+|  0x04
+|  Unused
+|-
+|  0x18
+|  0x08
+|  APP file size
+|-
+|  0x20
+|  0x2000
+| Content Index
+|}
+The order of the sections in the CIA file:
+* Header
+* Ticket
+* TMD
+* APP file data
+Very similar to the final CIA version(encryption, TMD, etc), except there is no embedded Certificate Chain.
+== Discussion ==
 Good work Lazymarek9614, Now 3dsexplorer on the svn is 0.73 (you can download it from the beta link) supports cia. --[[User:Elisherer|Elisherer]] 21:34, 10 November 2011 (CET)
 :@Elisherer where is that beta link?--[[User:3dsguy|3dsguy]] 02:39, 11 November 2011 (CET)
@@ Line 9: / Line 119: @@
 : Please keep the focus on documentation of the spec., we don't want to explain things from the perspective of SDK users- but for someone that knows (potentially) nothing about the 3DS. The SDK does not tell the whole story of most file formats, and most people don't need to know what the SDK can do for them but what they can do without the SDK. - [[User:Jl12|Jl12]]
 ::: "Dev/Production CIA use the same specification. So I'm not sure what you mean by this. " I originally worded it that way on the page because both CIAs [[User:3dsguy|3dsguy]] uploaded had cleartext APP data, thus I wasn't sure if CTR-SDK had an option for encrypting the dev CIAs. I don't get why [[User:Elisherer|Elisherer]] re-implements about everything ctrtool already does either... --[[User:Yellows8|Yellows8]] 05:26, 12 November 2011 (CET)
+::: - Depending on which one it was, the link that was removed initially was a old presentation from e3. It's just out dated enough that the cia format probably hadn't been finalized. Anything before firmwares 0.10.0 - 0.11.0 neither use LZ compression nor encrypt (!) but - except the use of keys, the SDK now produces .cia with close to retail specs. [[User:Jl12|Jl12]]
+::::If you like working with the windows command line be my guest. I got more progress looking at the files with 3dsexplorer... (And i'm not re-inventing 3dsexplorer didn't support cia so I added it, I will continue fixing the structure to be as accurate it can be)  --[[User:Elisherer|Elisherer]] 09:48, 12 November 2011 (CET)
+::::: - I was thinking more the wiki and the "documentation" of the structures then 3dsexplorer tool. (I thought this was based on binaries, though) [[User:Jl12|Jl12]]
+:::::I personaly like a command line tool more, but it's really annoying to have for each format another tool. Shall I create a new page for the certs and tickets?--[[User:Lazymarek9614|Lazymarek9614]] 15:06, 13 November 2011 (CET)
+::::::The format of the certs/tickets seem to be the same as before,(besides the new signature types already described on the TMD page) not really necessary to create pages for those.(Any info on what cert is used to sign what should be on a /sys/cert.sys page or so later IMO) [[User:Elisherer|Elisherer]], you're re-inventing the wheel aka re-implementing CXI/CIA code which ctrtool had for months, which is a waste of time IMO. --[[User:Yellows8|Yellows8]] 19:24, 13 November 2011 (CET)
+:::::::[[User:Yellows8|Yellows8]], I didn't write any new code for the CXI/CCI/TMD/CIA opening, I just copied it from the ctrtool (as I mentioned when I just written the app). The rest (which is the SAVE flash) became the prime goal of the app and with it I discovered a lot of new information. I try implementing most of the file structures we know so it would be more accessible to everyone (Hoping it would help solving more mysteries). I know that now it's not clear why 3dsexplorer opens these sort of file--[[User:Elisherer|Elisherer]] 00:11, 3 February 2012 (CET)s but with time more information will come and it will grow to extract more important information. I hope you understand. --[[User:Elisherer|Elisherer]] 20:27, 13 November 2011 (CET)
+::::::Sorry guys, this discussion doesn't really has anything to do with the CIA format. Please choose another page for this or stop it now. @ [[User:Yellows8|Yellows8]]: I think it's not important to create a new page for it too, only some links to the TMD format and wiibrew wiki are necessary.--[[User:Lazymarek9614|Lazymarek9614]] 20:44, 13 November 2011 (CET)
+:::::::Other than that TMD code, that CXI/CIA code looks nothing like the ctrtool code to me - but whatever. --[[User:Yellows8|Yellows8]] 22:07, 13 November 2011 (CET)
+: Maybe you guys would like a forum... it would be less clumsy or interefering to the wiki then plastering talk page with comments. Not to mention we could use pictures and attach files directly. I don't mind setting up something like that if it's actually going to be used.  [[User:Jl12|Jl12]]
+::I think a forum is not a bad idea, but I also don't mind using the Talk page on the wiki aslong as it is relevant. Maybe [[User:Mha|Mha]] can take a look into setting up a forum on the 3dbrew host? --[[User:Neimod|Neimod]] 21:51, 18 November 2011 (CET)
+* http://n-dev.net
+[[User:Jl12|Jl12]]
+: I prefer having a forum running on the 3dbrew host and managed by the 3dbrew administrators. The forum link above is fine for now as a temporary measure. --[[User:Neimod|Neimod]] 04:48, 20 November 2011 (CET)
+Is there any reason it has to be on the 3dbrew host? If it's an issue of forum management I can just move your account(s) to the administrator group. Nobody's forced to use it, of course. [[User:Jl12|Jl12]]
+I agree with Neimod.--Matyapiro31 11:56, 20 November 2011 (CET)
+The link to [[User:Jl12|Jl12]]'s CIA example is broken (probably since the FBI took down MegaUpload). Could someone re-upload it somewhere else? Thanks! [[User:CHR15x94|CHR15x94]] 23:41, 2 February 2012 (CET)
+:Download it contents [http://sherer.co.il/3ds/cia/Sample%20Cia/ here]--[[User:Elisherer|Elisherer]] 00:11, 3 February 2012 (CET)
+== Content Index? ==
+What on earth is the "Content Index"? To me it sounds critical to understanding the contents chunk.--[[User:Henke37|Henke37]] ([[User talk:Henke37|talk]]) 17:39, 22 July 2016 (CEST)
+:It's a number that identifies an NCCH to be installed by that CIA, equivalent to the [[NCSD#Overview|partition number]] of a CCI: indeed, 0=main, 1=manual, 2=remote app are used in exactly the same way. The number of mazimum possible partitions is however much higher in CIAs! --[[User:Ryccardo|Ryccardo]] ([[User talk:Ryccardo|talk]]) 18:19, 22 July 2016 (CEST)